Part 1:
Part 2:
Part 3:
Guardian (Newspaper) investigation uncovers possible war crimes committed by Israeli soldiers against the Palestinians in Gaza.
In this 3 part documentary, you will see soldiers using little kids as human shield. It is hard to watch and very sad to see such events accruing, however, it is important to inform ourselves of unjust human suffering....
Maybe, just maybe, the next generation will learn something from "human history" and not repeat such acts in the future. I know it's a tall order, as we humans tend to forget and repeat the same mistakes over and over again.... But maybe, with the help of the internet, learning process can take place at a much faster pace....
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
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11 Comments:
This is a very touchy subject!
War crimes are inevitable in every war due to human nature. They just haven't been discovered in every case, so it's not fair to say it's limited to a few examples.
Both sides in this struggle have used children, directly or indirectly, as shields...
However, even when children are not used in such a way, just the mere fact that their parents, even those in military uniforms get killed (even if war was between soldiers and armies solely), kids are affected permanently and for life, as well as for generations to come...
The only solution is for both sides to stop the rhetoric and stop the 'hate'.... But we can't expect it overnight...
Sometimes a two-state solution does wonders, and other times it makes things worse.
I am not an expert who has biased opinions either way. But my observation is that Israel (just like Turkey with Kurds) does provide a haven for its Arab citizens. And may be not the protection.
And we must separate the Palestinian people and their cause from the terrorist element (once again Kurds vs PKK similarity)...
And only they (Israel and the 'rightful' representatives of Palestinians -- which change from one day to the next -- depending on who the next Godfather is) can solve this problem by talking directly with one another, without any preconditions, and without any interfering representations by outsiders...
Good luck!
You make some interesting and good points, however, as long as there is occupation of West Bank and Gaza, this perpetual violance will not end on both sides. In the case of PKK or Kurds, there is no occupation but rather fight for independence.... it's very different circumstances and to compare the two cases is very misleading in my opinion...
Again, like you I am not an expert and will not claim to know all the details.... But occupation is not working for Israel for the last 30 years, I think it's about time, Israel re-thinks it's position....
Two state solution is a good viable option.... :)
The Middle East has had its share of problems thorughout history wayyyy before Israel's creation 60 years ago..
Some people call it the Turkish (from Turkey) 'occupation' of Cyprus by the way.... to be the 'guarantor' of the Cypriot Turks...
Would Turkey be OK if Greece decided to be the 'protector' of Cypriot Greeks?
We can't be for something, and then against something when it serves our purpose... (as Turks I meant... consistency is a prerequisite)
What I meant by PKK and Kurds is:
If the Kurds in Turkey wanted a separate state segregated from Turkey, and then decided at the will of the PKK to throw rocket bombs, or even rocks & stones, does Turkey have the right to react (like Israel would)..??
Again, we're not debating the techniques or the methods used against civilians here... we're debating the point of the right to protect the sovereignty...
And btw, some people claim that the 30K as number of civilians killed by 'terrorists' within Turkey contains a mass number of Kurds, whom Turkey includes in its calculations, since they 'technically' are Turkish citizens...
Sounds like double talk to me...
:)
I try to look at human history as a collective. The way I see it is that, humans have been killing each other for centuries and centuries. There is nothing new or original with the Israeli and Palestinian conflict, neither with Kurdish and Turkish conflict.
There have always been wars over resources and land. So I am not even questioning who is right or wrong. I am sure each side has a legitimate reason why they would see themselves among the “good guys” and the enemy as the “bad guys”. Otherwise there wouldn’t be wars per say…
What is sad is that humans as a collective do not learn from their previous mistakes. There is perpetual violence everywhere and it just does not end....
As in the case of Israel, the accusation of "POSSIBLE" war crimes is reported by "Human rights watch". They as an organization try to be as unbiased as possible. There is plenty of evidence of "white phosphorus" use, which constitutes war crimes, as it's not allowed during combat or war....
Again! I am not claiming anything.... I love Israel and I am proud to have Jewish blood. I am also concerned for the people of Gaza and West Bank as their pain is immense and the brutal occupation is very sad to watch. Burnt bodies lying around in the streets of Gaza, as a result of white phosphorous should not be happening.
As for the Kurds in Turkey….; Turkish government has a lot of apologizing to do, not only for the serious unfair oppression for many decades but also, indiscriminate killings of poor villagers who lived (unfortunately) side by side with the PKK terrorists… I am not in anyway turning my head from the pain caused by the Turkish government upon the Kurds, as well as PKK atrocities committed upon the Kurds and the Turks. Both sides have caused tons of suffering to each other for no reason what so ever!
I will not discuss the issue of PKK vs Turkish government because It’s irrelevant in this discussion. I remember you specifically saying a few weeks ago, keep to the point and do not bringing other countries into the conversation, as it dilutes the discussion. Here you are doing exactly what you were against… :)
This is the link to Human Rights Watch:
http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/03/25/israel-white-phosphorus-use-evidence-war-crimes
I hope the future generations will not continue to destroy each other as it has been happening up to today; otherwise, we humans are pretty self-destructive and quite stupid over all!
"Here you are doing exactly what you were against… :) "
Not really!
I only brought up the Kurdish question as an example to point out the hypocrisy of some Turks:
... who are against Israel's right to defend its sovereignty against its people from either within its borders or from Gaza... and on the other hand justify Turkey's right to do the same thing against its own sovereignty... either within its own borders or from Northern Iraq (I remember the offensive against said attacks)
Why is it OK in the one case and against the other?
That is why I brought up the Kurdish question. It was merely an example to make my point...
But I am sure other commenters will jump on the Kurdish issue, or go off on tangents and question the statements I made relative to the Kurdish issue.
I hope not. Hopefully, the point of Israel is wrong when it does it, and Turkey is right when it does it, can be challenged.
I am sure there are reasons to justify Turkey's actions and blame Israel's. I'd like to hear some...
:)
By the way, it's very relevant to this discussion.
How else will you be able to compare without using live examples of apple to apples (or to oranges) in order to make a point that Israel's actions are not exclusively right or wrong...
If it's wrong, then so should the others'. Consistency is what I am after.
You can't be against the death penalty. But then be for it when your own family is involved in the murder.
Remember Michael Dukakis??
:)
Sorry TT but you are missing the big picture and arguing about the semantics again... :) I think you just love a good argument....
From your original post, I gathered that you sided against Israel, singling it out...
I just pointed out that you can't be against something in one case, and for it in another.
That's semantics?
:)
Not that I don't... I do too... But in this case, I will pass and conclude that this particular post has nothing to do with PKK....
I was pointing out to the latest information that came out recently regarding possible war crimes committed during the last Gaza attack... Guardian is a very well respected newspaper, so I was interested in the news. Plus Human Rights Watch is also attesting to the same thing....
I side with humanity.... always...!
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